- The history of the Snöhetta bureau began with winning the competition for the project of the Library of Alexandria in 1989. How was it working in Africa for you?
- It was a fairy tale for us. We won the competition and moved to Egypt, to Cairo - half of the office moved there. And we loved Egypt: a fantastic place, beautiful people, and the customer was great. Initially, it was a UNESCO project, but their money was only enough for an international competition, and then the library became a national Egyptian project.
Probably, the work there was different from Europe in terms of building codes and everything else?
- Not so different. We worked according to international standards, because the building was still an international project. But, of course, we worked with Egyptian workers, Egyptian materials, etc., and everything happened in Egyptian style. Therefore, it was not simple and clear, but interesting.
As far as I know, you are responsible for projects in Asia and Africa at Snøhetta?
- For projects in Britain, Pacific, Africa and the Middle East.
You have many large projects in the Middle and Far East
- We work a lot in the Middle East, in the rest of Asia, and now we are opening a small office in Australia, so we are definitely expanding. It is very exciting.
“But it’s probably not easy to work on a global scale. When you built a wonderful opera house in Oslo, you knew the venue well, but when you work in China or Korea, it's a different matter - you have to study the scene first and then design it there
- Yes, I think this is very true, but still it completely depends on the approach. If your position is that you know everything about this place, then you most likely should not build a building there. As an architect, you should always approach a project with the thought that you know nothing and that you need to explore this place, people, project. Therefore, it is often a little easier to work away from home: then you have to make up your mind and say to yourself: "This is what I have to study: this is a completely new project and it is unique." So it's a matter of approach. If you think you know everything, then it's time for you to move somewhere.
Out of your comfort zone?
- I think the architecture is not uncomfortable. But I think you need to encourage yourself to study the details of the project. It's always about new people, a new dialogue, a new task, a new site. Never two are alike, and even if you sometimes think: “I did this before, this is the same as last time” - this is not so.
We really have to go to places we don't know about and meet people we don't necessarily understand right away. I think it helps us that we come from afar. Oslo is very far away, Norway is at the very edge of the world, on the periphery, so wherever we go, we move towards the center. I think it's easier than moving out of the center and exporting your culture in a way. And we manage to get to know different cultures. Of course, we come with our luggage, but each time we meet a new culture.
But there is a difference not only between landscapes and types of climate, but also between national traditions, between Chinese and Korean customers, for example?
- Of course, there are different customs, different cultural baggage. But we are always talking about people, and people are not so different from each other. One of the differences is that you have to conduct a dialogue in different ways, in different languages, and sometimes there is no common language at all. For example, in China it is not easy to communicate, so you have to look for other ways of communication.
Snøhetta has received many orders for large projects in different countries of the world thanks to its victories in competitions. The bureau has some know-how - how to win in the competition?
- It would be great if we had such know-how, but for one competition we won, there are ten lost. It is important to win the right ones.
Competitions are very difficult from a psychological point of view. You put so much effort into a project, and then someone else wins, and your project is put on the table
- Yes, it is really hard to lose, but to be honest, we are used to it, because we often participate in competitions. It's heartbreaking when you worked so hard on a project and then lost. But at first you drown, and then you float to the surface again, because there is always some new project.
Does Snøhetta have a special department dealing with competition projects?
- No, our bureau is organized differently. We have a "flat" structure, each employee can deal with any project.
It's very democratic
- We are making great efforts for this. Nothing can be absolutely democratic, this simply does not happen, and, of course, someone is better at one type of activity than others, but we really believe that everyone can do any job.
Snøhetta is engaged in various projects, for example, graphic design
- The point of view that architecture concerns only architecture is outdated. You have to work with a customer on a very broad basis: he needs not only doors, windows, walls, he is looking for something more. We believe that this base needs to be expanded further. We are landscape architects, we are interior designers, we are graphic designers, we are architects. To design a building, you also need sociology, visual arts - the whole spectrum. Otherwise, you will not be able to satisfy the complex requests of the customer.
So you think that an architect can and should do everything?
- Of course, architects cannot do everything, because we do not know everything in the world, and therefore we need a lot of disciplines. There is special knowledge and experience, and this must be respected. But I think an architect needs to be able to deal with a wide range of issues.
As a result, there are two trends. One - when architects make a variety of projects, as in "Snøchette" or OMA. And the second - when architects are trying to create a narrow professional niche for themselves, say, the design of theater buildings
- That is, we are talking about specialization and non-specialization. We try not to specialize. We don’t think there is something that we don’t know how to do. We are trying to do everything. Of course, for this you need specialists, so we have people who know everything about plants, colors, materials. You need specialists, but you don't have to specialize. At Snøhetta we try to make sure that each of our large team speaks in the same key. I can be a landscape architect, but I can also discuss colors and interior design, at least in a creative way. I am not hiding behind my specialization. I do not declare: “I am a specialist, and you can do it this way only” - I take part in a dialogue with others.
For example, can you lead a graphic design project?
- I can't do graphic design, but I can have ideas and thoughts about how it should be.
Do you think this is the future of the profession?
- I think this is the right way. We do not have to specialize, be experts in one area or another. We must connect, not fragment, ideas.
Let's talk about the landscape. Moscow has a difficult climate and a highly polluted environment, so it is not easy to create a landscape design suitable for these conditions. Have you done landscape projects in the same challenging environment?
- One of the most interesting projects that we are doing now is the King Abdulaziz Center for World Culture in Saudi Arabia, the construction of which is now coming to an end. The building is surrounded by a large park, for which we have selected only those plants that can grow in a desert climate with a minimum of watering. This park is not very green, but there are plants.
What kind of project is Snehetta currently developing for Moscow?
- We are doing a project with KB Strelka, this is the reconstruction of a small section of the Garden Ring.
This is probably very difficult, because, as you know, the urban space here is often unpleasant, especially for pedestrians. Many Muscovites are fascinated by the thoughtfully designed environments in European cities, and of course they would like to have something like a home. But it is very difficult to imagine such a comfortable "European standard" on the Garden Ring
- I think this work is very important. In Moscow, everything is done with amazing speed, a lot can be done so quickly. But when you work in the city, you cannot strive for perfection, you have to be a pragmatist.
What is the main principle of Snøhetta when you create an urban space? Because if you look at the public space in Moscow, it is often just wider sidewalks than before
“These sidewalks will be filled with city life. If the space is safe and pleasant, there will be life. Therefore, I would not be worried about this. We are working on converting Times Square in Manhattan into a pedestrian area, where the aspirations are the same as in Moscow. And every time we complete another piece, it is immediately filled with amazing activity. And this is how citizens take the city back to themselves - if you make it comfortable, safe and enjoyable.
We must also take into account the issue of climate: in Moscow half a year outside is not very comfortable, and in Oslo it is the same, only more humid. How do you manage to get people to use public spaces in winter?
- It is also very dark in Oslo in November and December. That is why we chose white marble for the opera house, so that even on a gloomy November day, it shines. And people come there on winter evenings, in the worst weather, when there is strong wind and snow.
“At first, the Times Square project was about creating a shared space that people and machines would use together. But now the idea has changed?
- That's right, now the square is made completely pedestrian.
How did you manage to do this, because Times Square was a very busy intersection?
- Yes, there were a lot of cars. Broadway runs at a slight angle to the Manhattan street grid, resulting in very complex intersections, including Times Square. The New York City authorities analyzed traffic flows and found that if these terrible intersections were closed, everything would work even better. And now that Broadway is partially closed to cars, traffic is distributed much more successfully than before.
“Thanks to the Manhattan lattice, when can cars always take a block east or west of Broadway to turn?
- Yes. Seven blocks of Broadway are now being converted into a pedestrian zone, including Times Square. This square is a large space full of people - especially on New Year's, when now you can stand right in the middle of the street and watch the Christmas ball descend.
